In this first part of the 60-minute interview with malaysiakini, PAS deputy president Nasharudin Mat Isa tells malaysiakini on his immediate plans after retaining the post and defend criticisms that were directed at the reforms introduced by young turks in the party.
Malaysiakini: What are your immediate plans for the second term of your deputy presidency? Any difference from what your team (the young turks) had done over the past two years?
Nasharudin: What we are planing to do is to continue with what we have already planned since the last term. We will continue with the programmes that I have been promoting - that is engaging and repackaging of the party. Coming into the second term now, we will be more aggressive on that because there are a lot of sectors and segments that we have yet to breach.
The main agenda now will be the next general election. You can judge from the PAS muktamar that most of the debates were focused on strengthening the party for the next general election. This is what we are going to do. The next priority is to meet with PKR (PAS’ opposition ally in the Barisan Alternatif) leaders on matters related to seat negotiation, focusing in areas where we are going to contest and selecting the best candidates for the seats.
How are you going to be more aggressive and where are the areas you have yet to breach?
We should really work on the ground now. Many plans have been there since I won in 2005 (party election) which have not been implemented yet. We are going to expedite the implementation. Areas like support from non-Muslims is not really up to our expectation; the development of PAS supporters’ club is not to the target that we expected, this will be enhanced more; reaching out to that (non-Muslims) community and programmes which are related to the young voters, (this will be carried out) especially by using our wings such as the Youth and the Nisa (young women wing).
Do you foresee any problem in terms of getting more aggressive for PAS to introduce these plans? There were delegates during the muktamar who have voiced concerns and preferred to go back to what PAS was. Judging from close to 40 percent votes received by (Nasharudin’s challenger and ulama figure) Harun Taib, the conservative element in the party is still quite significant.
That is part of the strategy. The first two years, we were still at the period of confirming the support we received from delegates in 2005. We just threw in the ideas that these are the things that we want to do to repackage the party, to get the party to engage with the untapped market out there. That was what we have been doing over the past two years. For instance, this office (the new PAS headquarters), we bring it out, easier to the people in Kuala Lumpur. Many programmes have been established. Now we have been given the second mandate, this is where the activities are going to be more action-oriented for the second term. That is what I meant by aggressive.
How do you want to engage the group in the party which is unhappy with what the young turks are doing?
From the percentage of votes that I received which is almost 60 percent, it showed that people want changes. People want things to happen and move. We are going to make use of the second mandate given by party members to really move and get the ball rolling.
Would you have won if not for the intense speculation about an early general election?
Yes! I came in (to the contest) with confidence because I was told the nominations received by Ustaz Harun was less than mine. That tells, that shows the support for me personally and the group of so-called young turks have been received well at the grassroots.
How many nominations more than Harun did you receive?
Not sure (but) I was told it is quite a significant number.
The conservatives posed a strong challenge this time.
Yes. First time when I contested (the deputy presidency) in 2005, it was against two big names, Ustaz Hassan Shukri (then incumbent) and Abdul Halim (Abdul Rahman), I received about 60 percent of votes (then), that was what I was told. The challenge of Ustaz Harun this time (shows) the same group have been consistently voting for either the conservatives or me.
We have a culture in PAS. There might be differences prior to the party election but once the election is over, we start to close rank and prepare for the next general election and this was the concentration in my closing remarks during the muktamar.
I received SMSes, hundreds and hundreds of them, who said they supported me and some even openly told me: “We voted Ustaz Harun but since now you have been given the mandate by the huge amount of delegates. We will stand firm behind you and work together for the party”.
You don’t see there will be any kind of division after the party polls?
No. There might be differences in the feelings towards Harun and myself, which is quite normal. This is a big organisation, I don’t expect everybody to agree with me, but that portion of those who didn’t vote for me, for the sake of the party, they come and we work together.
In the run-up to the election for the No 2 post, was there any attempt to go through the musyawarah (consultation) process between you and Harun to come up with a consensus on who should contest for the post?
It was open. In the meeting prior to the election and muktamar, the president stated in the CWC (central working committee) meeting that the (party’s) constitution says it is open for party members to contest. We don’t see any problem in it. The tension that was created was being played up more by outsiders than party insiders.
So there wasn’t any kind of consultation that was carried out?
No. This (contest) is not something new, it didn’t happen this year (only). It has been stated in the party’s constitution since day one and it has been the process of the party. The only difference this year is that with all the technologies we have - Internet, SMS, bloggers - it seems to be heated up a little bit, that’s about it.
Some say the challenge this time shows the conservatives are not happy with the way the party was run in the last two years and that they are sending a signal that ‘we are watching you’ even though they know the young turks might win in the end. Would you agree with this observation?
I like to be watched and we want to be watched because being human, nobody is perfect. This kind of wake-up call is good because at least we know that we are being checked and watched. There might be things which we may be doing a little bit too fast or too slow, so they are going to make sure the speed is right for the second term. Now we are trying to adjust the speed, not going too fast...
Were you going too fast?
At the early stage, yes. When I started the process of repackaging, I was with the media and magazine, somebody warned me not to go too fast, so I slowed down. So what we did was just do things at the normal pace of PAS.
But I think the speed should change for the next term. I really want to speed up a little bit because everyone is talking about the general election. We really have to speed up in a very short period of time, we are talking about six, seven months of preparation? We really need to go (fast).
In the past two years, we could see the young turks have introduced and set up (online video portals) Kelantan TV, PAS TV and the new headquarters. Can you elaborate on what you consider as the successes for your team?
The media has always been very high on our agenda. We know we have very limited access to the public and we realise that the traditional ceramah (political talk) that we have been organising for years is one way to communicate with the people but again, not a very effective way because the market is very limited. Sometimes it is just our very own PAS members or supporters. By having the media with us - where Kelantan TV, PAS TV, Damai TV and long list coming - as well as bloggers, this is the new market that we are tapping. It is part of the engagement.
I received a lot of congratulatory messages (after the re-election) from Chinese, Indian friends - some I have never knew before. This is the kind of market that we really want to go in. My motto is simple, I want to promote an image of PAS for all. PAS is not only for the Malays, Muslims, Terengganu, Kelantan or the Kedah folks, but it is for all Malays, Chinese and Indians. This is why the PAS supporters club that we established a few years ago is having a lot of support now. We have also launched Indian PAS supporters clubs in Kelantan and Perak and we are opening the market into new states after this.
Given the list of successes you have mentioned, how would you grade yourself on your leadership?
Between A to Z? (Laughs) Between A to F I think I will get myself a position somewhere to the middle. (C? C plus?) Give me a C plus, I am not saying that we have done a lot or have not done anything, we are still working on it and two years is a quite a short period to put a stamp on an organisation, individual or mood of change.
I would agree with one suggestion from a delegate, which was supported by Husam (Musa, party vice-president), that we should make a term (for party officer bearers) from two to three years because only after three years then we can really start develop and enhance the strategy and planning that we have.
You had expected the Prime Minister (Abdullah Ahmad Badawi) to bring about reforms in two years time when he took over the premiership.
Yes.
But you are saying two years is not enough now.
Yes, two years is not enough (for us in PAS). We got to consider the fragility within the party because very much this is still a traditional (party), a huge amount of members are Kelantan, Terengganu-based and everybody know how the Malay cultures are. Yes, you want to change but you also have to look at the fragility of the members, their level of thinking. As the late (former PAS president) Fadzil Noor mentioned, we are a mass movement, harakah ummah. We got the best brains in the party, corporate figures and (individuals) from all levels of educational background with exposures, which we have to entertain. We can’t just do changes that only fit a certain section of members.
This is where that two years is not enough and not much have been done.
Would you propose to amend the office bearers’ term from two to three years?
It was just suggested in the muktamar last week - maybe at the next one.
How would these new approaches that your team introduced be translate into electoral gains? After all, there is argument that the new approaches only cater for the more urban voters or non-Muslims but PAS’ traditional strong base has always been the rural areas. Like some of your supporters, they don’t even have internet access to view PAS TV.
The market is big, we just can’t concentrate on one portion of society. What we are trying to do is targeting different portions and segments of society. Yes, for the kampung folks, the ceramah and our religious programmes in the mosque and surau are sill very effective and ongoing, but for the other segments, there is the need to be tapped and offered (with) PAS programmes. The huge variety of this market - this is where we come in with PAS TV, Harakahdaily for those who have Internet access. It diversifies the whole programme and covers the whole sector.
The question remains whether at the end of the day are they going to vote for PAS or otherwise even though they may know what PAS is right now with these new approaches?
Now is the period of time we offer to Malaysians that this is what PAS is going to offer to the Malaysian community no matter what race you are. (It is) going to be a kind of shifting the public perception of what PAS is all about - not just a political party talking about hell and heaven, but also talking about development of the country, its sovereignty, our rights, economy etc.
The new voters you are trying to capture are unlikely to vote for PAS due to your Islamic state document.
The process of demonising Islam is ongoing, not just (against) PAS, it is an international agenda which we can’t get away from. That is why the programme of engaging and repackaging is important. We have succeeded in a way in countering the negative image against PAS being Taliban, being extremist etc. People realise PAS is beginning and talking about the language of the day. Now is more on offering things that are within our reach - that is what our next election manifesto is going to talk about.
What are your plans for the next general election?
It is not my personal plan, it’s the party’s decision. We have already planned for the coming weeks, we will start discussing with PKR about seat allocation and the choice of candidates. I was made to understand from our election director (Mustafa Ali) that names have started coming in from divisions on interested candidates.
What about you yourself?
I am not sure yet.
You will re-contest in the parliamentary constituencies of Besut (in Terengganu) or go back to Yan (in Kedah)?
I am not sure yet because we are still re-mapping the process (laughs).
The last two years you have put more focus on party duty than building grassroots support in the constituency.
(Pause) because we want to strengthen the party. I still visit those two areas - Yan (the one that I won in 1999) and Besut (the one I lost in 2004). In fact, I was in Yan yesterday. I still go down to attend programmes. Where I will contest, I leave it to the party to decide.
But we presume the party will give you more or less a safe seat since you are the party No 2 now?
Oh, thank you (laughs). The party will decide shortly.
According to Mustafa, there are only five states that the PAS election machineries are 70 percent ready for the general election whereas the machinery are not ready in other states.
The concentration of the work and the preparation are very heavy in Kelantan and Terengganu, it is really bubbling up there. You also got to be realistic on that, when we focus on things, that’s where the concentration is. I think that is what he meant. It was not to mean that those states whose preparations are below 60 percent, they are not doing anything. It’s just that they are not up to that level of preparation yet, they are doing something.
How do you see the chances of PAS keeping Kelantan and regaining Terengganu?
Keeping Kelantan, insyallah (God willing), we are going to retain Kelantan if only there are no electoral foul play, especially the Election Commission. We are quite worried about the manipulation of the electoral roll and the conduct of election. The support for PAS is still strong among the people in Kelantan. As far as Terengganu is concerned, the dissatisfaction among the Terengganu folks are also quite obvious, Umno’s ‘feel good’ factor is not really to the standard that they could be proud of.
You do realise that the party’s performance in the next general election will be a yardstick for party members to decide whether to give the young turks another mandate?
The party had experienced many electoral defeats and victories. After losing or winning the elections, the leadership of the party still remains - so that is not the only yardstick. Yes, it will be talked about and discussed, but I don’t think it is going to be the yardstick for the success or failure of the leadership.
What about working with DAP?
As of now, we are only working with PKR, so I know nothing about DAP.
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